27 Mar DISCUSSING NLP: NEUROLINGUISTIC PROGRAMMING
Discussing NLP: neurolinguistic programming: A discussion between two NLP Master Practitioners Amanda Dounis and Kerry Bailey
Disclaimer: this transcript was mechanically transcribed and the author has done her best to make certain grammatical corrections and ensure that it makes sense. The true version is in the video. What follows below is slightly modified to help the reader make sense of the content. Please respect that spoken language often transcribes with confusion and some doubling up. Regardless, enjoy.
The conversation is between Kerry Bailey and Amanda Dounis.
Who says what, is not important for the purpose of the transcript and so this has been left out. Interested readers are more concerned with the content. I hope you enjoy the read.
Alternatively just watch the you tube for a different experience.
Here it is:
Well hello and a warm welcome to today’s listeners. Allow me to introduce myself as the host of Today’s episode. My name is Amanda Dounis. I am the founder of the positive thinking clinic located in Wolli Creek Sydney.
Here are the positive thinking clinic, I see clients of all ages. I see individuals couples families and small groups. I conduct psychotherapy and I use a variety of modalities delivered through counselling techniques and hypnotherapy.
I’m a professional counsellor, clinical hypnotherapist, strategic psychotherapist, early childhood teacher, and MLP master practitioner.
To learn more about what I do and what I offer, visit my website on www.positivethinkingclinic.com.au. The easiest way to connect with me on social media is to search my name Amanda Dounis or my clinic name Positive thinking clinic.
You may also access my social media at the bottom of my website. I’m the author of my coping skills handbook aimed at kids aged 8 through to 14 years of age and I’ve also turned this into an online course.
I have a range of podcasts that can be found on Amandadounis.podbean.com
In addition to the Positive Thinking Clinic, I am the owner of four early learning centers. I’m passionate about quality care and emotional wellness of all ages. I believe we set the foundation for emotional wellness from a very young age. My early learning centers are licensed as Positive Living Skills services.
I also have an emotional wellness & kids group on Facebook. One of my greatest hobbies is that I think I’m always involved in a variety of courses no matter how small. I enjoy adding to my skill set as an integrated therapist.
I learn diverse skills and I select the best fit for any situation. If you wonder if I have any other hobbies I’m also into fitness. I’ve run a number of marathons including two ultra marathons. So that’s me in a nutshell.
If you wanted to get in touch you can use the contact form on my website.
I would love to hear from you signing out and moving forward.
You’re listening to Amanda Dounis.
Today we welcome Kerry.
Kerry is from Sydneyhypno.com.au. Kerry’s clinic is located in the inner west of Sydney in Marrickville. She conducts face to face and video based therapy sessions and coaching. Kerry is a senior therapist coach and trainer. She is a clinical hypnotherapist strategic psychotherapist an NLP coach and trainer: very skilled.
You can engage with Kerry on her social media Facebook and LinkedIn. She’s very responsive. Kerry has conducted compassionate fatigue workshops, family dynamics, workplace and team dynamics, and other various workshops.
She’s very passionate Kerry is passionate for the care of animals and people and has been from an early age.
She says I have had parents who modelled care and compassion for all. So I will always focus on what is the best outcome for all. Just like my parents she says I should do this… as she goes through life. Her motto is to live a life of integrity. Kerry has a background in A.P. going back over 30 years and she has worked in small business and in corporate for over 20 years.
She has been involved in a variety of different activities, and sporting events over the years. She’s got quite a résumé. She’s passionate for animal welfare. She has volunteered for over 35 years. Amazing.
Kerry says I love my family and my friends and I feel blessed to be a part of such wonderful people and working in the field that I love. Kerry studied at IAP the Institute of Applied Psychology. From there she entered into the arena of human welfare.
After having for so many years worked in animal welfare and she wanted to help her colleagues cope with pressures and frustrations that they face.
Kerry says I have found so much more now being able to help so many people in so many other walks of life. Amazing. Kerry has recently joined the faculty of her college I.A.P So that she can help others to follow the path that she loves so much. She says she sees her future as a continuance of the work that she does right now and that future is open to so many possibilities.
KERRY Absolutely loves what she does, if you want to get in contact with her, visit her Web site. There are so many ways to connect with Kerry.
So now we’re going to welcome Kerry Bailey and welcome Kerry. Thank you for joining us today.
Lovely to see you too. Thanks for inviting me.
You’re very welcome. Last time we met up we spoke about the drama cycle and I think that was extremely important. We had a great conversation it flowed and I think he provided our listeners with some really useful information so I was thinking today and I’m sure you agree because we touched on it. We said well let’s double on and have a conversation about hypnosis a little bit of … psychotherapy and see where the conversation leads us. I’m up for it.
OK so let’s be creative and let’s be creative in the way that we wonder what our listeners will be looking for what what it is you think that they’re going to want to learn from our conversation today.
I’m going to suggest one of one of the things that I actually have preplanned because like I said to you earlier on sometimes I have clients coming in saying to me can you just tell me a little bit about what in your piece and so even I myself I didn’t know much about pay until I actually had to become trained in the field and whilst we can explain what it is we also need to show our clients or interested individuals how it can actually be useful because there was a change.
So when people ask me that I often will use a kind of a one sentence answer whatever you tell your brain over and over your brain believes. This is why things like advertising and marketing work and it’s the reason why when you say things to yourself that aren’t helpful or don’t serve you you know it really does actually start to become part of your brain’s way of thinking.
It’s important to understand and know that whatever you say and the way that you say it is actually going to be taken in by your brain and it will start to operate under those premises. You know that premise. It’s it’s what you actually become in the end isn’t it. Exactly. And it’s really interesting to know that the brain actually works within stores information based on how you work with it. So people just think of it as oh you’re I think and that’s the way that I do things.
But you can actually work with the way that you think and the manner that you think and what you think. So you get better outcomes. Yes. And in … terms we use model of the world. So basically someone could come in and what they describe to you is their model of the world and we shift them over to the new model of the world because their current model of their world as they live it they are associated in this state.
So we need to cross that bridge with our clients and present them with their desired brand new model of the world and how we do. This comes with extreme technique doesn’t it. We use hypnosis to deliver this counselling at picnics and also obviously, you know the way that we help people to view things and how they get perspective from things and how they look at things whether they’re more objective being able to move away from something so they become more able to see it strategically.
It’s often interesting to think that the way the brain accesses information or creates information or goes bonds information you can kind of see it by the way eyes work. So we all know that you know what we’re thinking about something we might. All I have what was that again in your eyes look up towards the you know that area. And so that’s you going oh what is that.
And then when you’re like oh yeah maybe I’d like to do that and you become more creative say rise tend to go into another direction and something that I found really great for people who have anxiety or they go into some kind of depressive state or something is to let them know that to not allow their eyes to go down is a really appropriate thing to actually go above the horizon because it’s very difficult to access extreme depths of sadness when you’re not looking down.
So being able to help people to look above the horizon and to access information above that line is really really effective. It’s funny I often say to people you know when somebody says chin up what happens when somebody says Chin up it’s like your eyes have to actually rise. So a lot of these little terms that people use in general if they seem a bit glib that actually got some content in them that’s about you know that’s very funny you say that and it’s so so true I was doing a session with a child online the other day.
Now this child was having flashbacks of a very recent car accident that he was in and he was saying to me that while when I was asking him about his model his eyes were going where he was retrieving imagery and every time.
And it’s so beautiful on this screen because you are face to face so you get to see exactly where his eyes are going and each time he was thinking about or retrieving the language that he was using to describe the shock and the horror of the accident I thought oh bring it to his attention. And I said to him Do you notice where your eyes are guy when I ask you these questions and he would set out.
And it was the same answer that I had. So then I said to him How about now when your eyes go there and search for those images have a play put your eyes on the other side or somewhere else and see what you retrieve and his mother was there obviously listening to this session and she found that very education of course I’d produce some more soccer aid on on ice direction and where they go and what they mean and what’s cognitive and what’s in between what you hear and to try and thinking and feeling.
And so the next few days that they hope they practice when he was when it was manifesting in him he would redirect his eyes somewhere else and that just produced a change of state. And that indeed I thought it was effective for him. I was really glad to have had that experience so short before our session so that I can retrieve that. So it’s interesting isn’t it that you know neuro linguistic programming.
it kind of sets what it does to some extent. So when you change the way your neural paths work you know and linguistically assist yourself to do that through knowledge and cognitive pathways it actually can help you to change the programming that you’ve created for your brain. So people who say things to themselves where they’re negative they might say oh I’m stupid or you know I did something silly. They’re actually you know embedding that as a thought process that they’re actually train their brain to go Oh yeah that’s what I am when they’re actually not you know we’re all human we all make mistakes and things like that doesn’t that doesn’t actually make anybody stupid.
That just means hey I won’t do that again. So the process of making mistakes is how we move forward so that we get better processes not dwelling on the past and not giving ourselves those thoughts and accessing them all the time finding new ways and actually celebrating those and allowing yourself to go yeah. At least I did that well and to move forward with that new process well like you said mistakes or another term or let’s speak NLP terms failure is feedback that’s it exactly.
Need feedback and I’ll just give another example. Oh I myself have kids of my own. And when I see them make fake errors I really enjoyed watching them make them learn from them and come out of them by themselves. I think one of the mistakes we do as adults or parents or carers is we see an error occurring in the quick to save it and the disadvantage there is that individual doesn’t get to learn how to come out of that.
That’s right. And building resilience is so important. So when somebody actually has something that happens and then they look at it and they can observe it and they can go. Okay. Well I see what happened there. Not going. It was me. It’s like okay what happened. What was the behavioral thing that happened. What was the scenario. And being able to be that observer we often speak about being able to observe it without taking it personally because we all make mistakes. So when you don’t take a mistake that you make personally you can analyze it go.
Okay. I see what I did there. I know what not to do next time and therefore with that knowledge and a place to go it’s okay I’ll do better I can do this. And just letting that new process that you thought happen because we all go through those phases and we’ve spoken to her about it before the unconscious incompetence conscious competent confidence you have unconscious and unconscious competence and then we get to the unconscious competence sometimes we have to go between you know those different biases a few times before we really get to the really high level effective strategic competence and being in that place where you’re in a trance we’re doing things well with things just flow.
And one of my favorite questions that I tend to ask always after someone has produced something of a failure or an unsuccessful story or mishap or something that didn’t go their way. I like to say what did you learn from that. What good came out of that. Because the whole point especially with Okay neuro linguistic programming is let’s shift we can acknowledge what state we arrived at. However it doesn’t end there.
And if it ends there for an individual that’s when we know. Okay. They got stuck. Our job is to move them or to teach them to move themselves and always say okay came to a dead end. What can I what’s coming out of this. And we’re people too I’ve come to so many dead ends. We’re allowed to speak about ourselves when it’s in a therapeutic fashion and we think for a teachable moment. And when I have teachable moments I teach them I’ve made plenty of mistakes and have I learnt wonderful things from them.
Well I mean at the end of the day that’s why people become successful. You know there was I can’t think of exactly who it was who said that essentially you just keep going and you find the new way. And then you find you know the practice and then you find the methodology and then you might make a mistake. So then you go back. Okay well I know where that went wrong and I’ll start something else. I mean no one invented the wheel in one day no one invented the light globe in one day.
Always things that we think of we like are you. It’s just day somebody went through a process of making a lot of mistakes before people actually started making the thing that works now and even now things get modified an input is updated. Yeah I know.
You know I’m thinking of a modified and improved way that’s useful for our listeners to see how we use and or play in therapy is all like to use metaphor focus metaphors are extremely powerful for the unconscious mind and I say in these terms or somewhat creative in this fashion we are the authors of our own stories we can write a story we have a number of chapters which I like to call adventures because I’m very specific with our language that we’re using and we can at all times and anytime we like.
It in our book so the way we come in or a client comes in and tells their version it’s the model of the world. Yes but they’re not coming here to sit in that world. They’re coming here to make that shift a new model of their world. So this that no know model of therapy coming with it present state or their present behavior that they associated in and that’s why they’re in the problem state.
And then they’d let us know or work out with us their desired state or behavior. And that’s where we have to dissociate them so they can move then we follow on a number of different techniques. It’s an abundance of creative techniques that we use we use reframing. We use anchoring we use the language patterns we use words. Can you think of oh so many different ways.
I scramble you know distancing you know all of these different things that you can actually model. So it’s interesting. Yeah exactly. So the thing is it’s all dependent on what works for the particular client’s account. It’s come to us because effectively they’re stuck. But the way that we work with them it’s all unique.
So people come in here and we discover through you know a collaborative process of you know or what’s going on what you need to change what is it that you’re wanting to do. And what are your goals. And just discovering the best methodologies for each individual person. So for one person you know being able to see things in a different way.
Framing reframing is very important with their process might be by going into a hypnosis state or they might be potentially psycho education where they start to make the connections and some people might be okay. Well these your eye movements and anchoring okay. So when you want to have this sensation of strength and being able to move forward will anchor that. There are all different modes but what’s really interesting is.
That my perspective from my perspective is that with neuro linguistic programming it’s quite rapid. People can move forward. And when you couple it with the psycho education yes and also hypnosis and things like that it actually allow us to quickly go into and start to experiment with their processes in a really safe environment. Of course when they leave we give them homework and that’s it.
That’s their environment and they can do that practice practice practice in that way. But essentially it’s a way of giving what we call brief therapy. So it’s not like something where it goes on and on and on it’s something when you start to see results in a very rapid period of time and in addition to that as rapid as it is I think it takes some time to get that rapport with the client as well.
Well we have to spend time looking at the beliefs of the world looking at their values and what what they formed conditions already are what their outcomes are. So there’s a lot of ground work to cover beforehand so that where we’ve got that report I think once the report is there it becomes extremely fast and effective.
And then there’s the presuppositions of annual pay as well that we let me see if I can find some of brought somehow okay so I’ll just call out some of the presuppositions so that I don’t have to rely on my memory and some of them I respect for their model of the world. I think that’s part of building rapport extremely knowing that people are not they behaviors accepting the person but changing the behavior.
Yes. That’s really important because people know that often people have sort of given up thinking that things happen to them externally or that that’s just how the world is or that’s just how they are. And it’s actually quite a relief to have people understand and love. This is just a pattern of behavior that you’re repeating. And the thing is that you know they used to say oh you know it takes 28 days to change a habit but it doesn’t always take that long sometimes you know with with the processes that we use.
People go Oh I see where I see exactly where that’s happening. I can start addressing that immediately email subject line changes because it is actually a rapid way of accessing information understanding your patterns getting reframing and knowing what it is. It’s getting you stuck it’s not so much that you don’t know what you want to do you know what you want to do. It’s just those steps that take you those first steps that take it away you want to be. And that’s our process is to go.
Okay. Here are some really great ways of getting these steps together right now in this forum that we’re in right now and that you can practice when you leave. And it doesn’t really matter that you’ve done this before or that you’ve done it for years. The fact is now there’s this process where you don’t do it anymore. We don’t feel compelled to do it anymore you actually have this freedom to make a choice to frame it correctly.
This is one of the presuppositions as well. And just the loop I know you’re on a roll but just going .… It went into my mind that labeling behavior and not the person that begins from the very early years because of child care as well. And children do all amazing things and we are not to label the child we can label behavior. For example if any unfairness is happening the child has a model of the world too.
So it’s really important we label behaviors and not individuals. And that helps with their emotional wellness. We can probably somebodies confidence and we want our children to grow up with courage which then leads to resilience and we seek the same thing as adults too. Basically it’s the same model with a doesn’t matter what age you are. It’s the language that we use that differs for different individuals.
That’s what we speak differently to kids to teens to adults. And it’s interesting you know when we when we look at language language can be incredibly Infact it’s incredibly powerful because that’s the way that humans communicate to a large extent it’s not all that we do when we have body language and we have all sorts of other things that language itself and the ability to actually get to somebody in a really really positive way is something we can choose to do as individuals.
But the thing is sometimes you know what people will say to their friends they might say to themselves they’ll be encouraging and supportive of the friends and yet they’re not doing that for themselves. And so we give people facility to go. Hold on. I can be that to myself as well and giving them those skill sets and you know it’s really about loading up their tool chest all of these things that they can bring to give themselves the best possible outcome. So yes absolutely.
The initial pay the staff or education or the the ability to reframe what’s going on and to know you’re not your patents you’re not your behaviors your behaviors are an indication of things that you are not your parents because you can change your patterns. Yes that leads to impairment. It’s nice to see our clients leave feeling empowered because they accept instead of resist where possible and yet they now know that they are in charge.
They are in charge usually clients that are stuck feel that they’re not in control they’re not in charge. Everything else is controlling their happiness. Another person is controlling their happiness. A drug is controlling their behavior. Empowerment gives them choice and they are in charge of what they wish to be. And so hence the new model of the world. And so NLP is really fast and effective accompanied with whatever mentalities that you choose to use.
One of the one thing that I wanted to bring up is that I really enjoy what you do with clients is spent a lot more time than usual on self talk yes because when we go home. What do you tell your brain so that the language people choose to use and the way and even the time that they use are themselves. The unconscious mind. Absolutely.
And it’s sort of like the old you know thing. I’ll use an example if you invite somebody somewhere and they say all year I’ll try. You know they’re probably not going to turn up because the language of tries you’re not. So when you say to yourself I’m trying to stop smoking I’m trying to use I’m trying to do that. It’s not really a very powerful way of giving yourself a process for moving forward.
So removing the try and saying I am yeah I do is extremely powerful and I can. Yeah and I choose. Absolutely. Absolutely. So is that actually the language that you use can also reframe the behaviors and the way that you view them and the way that you choose to change them. And so all of those things is so important.
And you know it’s it’s funny I have people who’ve come in with their eyes downcast you know they have these different things. I hear they self talk I hear them talk about different things that they’re doing the patents and so relieved to sort of go hold on you’ve said I’m not my patent and then you prove to them through just doing some demonstration just a short one would I go I might go from feeling you know eight out of ten not feeling you know in a good state of mind and then you do a thing where you take their eyesight up you just basically give them some the skill sets and all of a sudden they’re now reporting.
Okay well that’s really affecting me. Two out of 10 and it’s only been 20 seconds. How can I go from being really you know anxious or whatever at a 9 or 10 and in a 20 to 30 seconds after I start changing the way that I view things in my language I start to get a three attitude and I’m a bit confused in a cycle actually you did that because you’ve changed the way you’re doing things you’ve changed the way you’re thinking so your pattern is changing and you’re getting a result that quickly Absolutely.
And another way of putting it is like these are reversible if you were able to go from a calm state to a frantic state in five seconds What makes you think that you can’t do that. When it was your thoughts that got you there that fast. Absolutely. I love that analogy. I think that’s fantastic. Just love it. So I will. Because the thing is it really is you know a case of people saying oh I can’t do this this it’s.
But you did this so you can actually do that and in time frames as you put out you know it can be rapid. It can be positive cases. What are you gonna do right now. Let’s work on this together. And that facilitator role that we have is a collaborative therapeutic process. But really what we’re doing is reskilling Skilling people up so that even post the session they’re continuing discussions those up because they’re starting to get some real clarity about you have got choice.
Oh yeah I can change my frame I can look up I can do these things and I start to practice it. And one of my favorite questions in the next session is so what have you notice that’s different that you’ve enjoyed. So they’ll go Oh you know this or that or you know I noticed this and it’s like yeah you’ll actually now changed your focus so you’re noticing the things that are powerful and strong for you and that they’re actually serving you and not noticing the things that are dragging you down.
That is some beautiful way of them changing and becoming more self-aware didn’t you notice that session after session a small they can give more input about what they notice about themselves. Quite often when at the very early stages and they tell me how they’re feeling they can very well recall how they’re feeling.
And so when I ask them what were you thinking at that time I have no recollection because they didn’t pay attention or because the unconscious mind was overstimulated or the conscious mind was ever seen to or overwhelm what’s happening you know or overwhelmed. And so if that’s one of the tasking. So now when you get that feeling and you don’t know where it’s come from because that brings a dead end to session. Take this paper home and now you record when you feel that or you experience that mood.
Can you write down what you’re thinking because thoughts feelings behaviors. It’s one nice try. It’s interesting. Yeah. A lot of people you know I was a psycho education and it’s all in our pay and everything else as well. But it’s interesting when you sort of say to people but your feelings aren’t really evidence you know look for external evidence of things. You know I’ve had I’ve had people say I’m not attractive and it’s like but there are people that your relationship with you know that you’re married and you know you know all my.
My husband says that I’m beautiful but I don’t feel like it’s like you might not feel like it. But that’s not evidence. Evidence is when somebody says to you I you know I’m so glad you’re here. You know you look great. All of this external evidence that shows some discomfort. Yes. Exactly. And that’s the evidence you need to sort of start to become aware of and focus on is. Yes there is more to what is evidence than what I think about it or how I feel about it.
You know Kerry that I think it’d be really great to get together again and speak about cognitive distortions. Absolutely. I think that’s a great topic for any person any age. And we can we direct it just to the adults of course but really it happens with children as well and I think that’s a topic that should be discussed on its own.
Maybe we’ll get together another time and do that when we get off how important and beautiful is the power of visualization. Yeah. Imagination can really take people to a completely different place. You know just transport them out of where they thought they were into where they can be. And the way I like to play with that when they to convince them that that’s a really promising pathway is I say to them Well it was your imagination that made you create all these negative mental movies in the first place.
Or it was the imagination that extracted what you watched in that movie or what you experienced in the schoolyard 20 years ago or whatever you interpret imagination that’s done in an amazing place isn’t it amazing. There are people who are operating today as adults based on something somebody said into a classroom to them when they were in third grade.
You know all you know which has gotten bears no relation to the person they are now it is still carrying that with them and created a belief credit a belief Exactly and it’s really I love it when people leave those inappropriate beliefs in the past where they belong. You know it’s sort of like that that wasn’t true at the time and it certainly isn’t true now. And so why are you listening to that and giving it airtime why not focus on that.
Focus on what works for you and put that in the past and people like oh how relieved they have the permission. One nice technique that I like to use and I think it’s it’s powerful language that the client really enjoys. It’s okay to have had the past. It’s okay to respect absolutely every event that’s on your timeline. That’s not the problem. That’s finished. The problem is your relationship that you’re having to him.
So something that’s happened. You have a relationship with that until you decide right now to let go of that relationship whether it’s through forgiveness or whatever it is that’s going to be suitable for the client or you know there’s some way to untie. We use a metaphor possibly but somehow to cut the relationship to what the problem is because like we’ve been taught the past is no place to leave.
So why are we carrying it with us. A worthwhile belief in really respecting everything that’s happened. That’s your story. We can change using guidance from inner pain hypnotherapy strategic psychotherapy how we tell our story and repeat that and repeat that and repeat that because we’ve repeated the old story enough.
Will in fact when people come in and see me life inside of them will tell me what the problem spaces we don’t need to know the story because you you’ve told your story so many times you know it upside down backwards and forwards and the thing is that that story is often you trying to find out why you think you’re like this and no amount of working out Y really helps you to change the behavior.
It’s how you’re doing something it’s what is that behavior. How are you replicating that behavior over and over again. And how do we change it. So the why. It really doesn’t serve me to find out why there’s a lot of people going why why why or you know if I had what if I had now’s the time to know that that past that story. Well it has some validity to some extent it’s something you have it’s a foundational thing.
It’s not who you are. It’s a patterns that you’re repeating from the story and the past that’s holding you stuck in that area only being able to turn around and go I can change these patterns. So it’s something that not only hasn’t been done but I can demonstrate to myself right now I can change a little bit and I can do a lot more Absolutely. These people gives people freedom. Lots I love.
It’s like people felt stuck and then they come out like I’m doing all of my during Cobain I’m doing all of my stuff via this video. Why. And I think it’s fabulous because we’re really in front of people. We get to see how they are. To see their eyes. We get to really get that focused attention on them and their prices and really help them to find new ways of doing things and they’ll suddenly like a little I am feeling it a bit. I mean if somebody is hunching down and not really sort of breathing properly we can help them to.
Change those small physical patterns that can help them to go oh okay. When I do it differently I actually do have a bit more ability to breathe and get more oxygen in my brain and when I do do this it just gives all these great new adjustments. It’s kind of like getting a couch wound up by someone who’s going Yeah I can hear where the timing’s out you know I can hear. I say well you know you need some air in those tires you know it’s always little things that go well we can optimize how this is all going.
You know if you’re not getting the right mileage and you’re ending up in the wrong place where we need to make sure your G.P.S. has got your location and you’ve got the tyre and air and you’ve got petrol in the tank and you know that your battery is going to stop the amendment the first place so it’s all about look you know let’s let’s do a check let’s see how we modify things and let’s get that shrooms and getting it really bunching and that’s where my coaching clients come in for a bit of a I just need a little bit of help with this.
Got. Right. We already know what’s what didn’t work. We know what works and let’s just work on something that also needs a tweak and it’s like yeah I get it I really get it and that’s the beauty of this work. So we get to work with people and see such great change positive change every moment will be life affirming. Yeah absolutely. And so I’m really really grateful that you got on today so we can do another great video. Me too. Thank you.
For anybody that wants any more information you can get in contact with carrie Bailey. W w w dot Sidney. No dot com don’t say you or me and Jamaica positive medical clinic dot com don’t you. So Carrie I guess we’ll see each other again on our next episode and I think we speak about cognitive distortion. That’s a great looking site. All right. All right. I’ll see you later. Thank you. Bye everybody.
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